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July 31, 2004

Should Women be allowed to Preach?

1 Timothy 2:11-12 11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.

Should a woman be allowed to be a deacon(ess) or an elder in a church?
I would say that it goes against scripture to allow deaconesses or women elders (pastors). While many women out there could clearly teach me a thing or two about God and scripture, that would go against the model of federal headship. Man is the head of the family…

1 Corinthians 11:3 3 But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

Ephesians 5:22-24 22 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. 24 But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.

Why would a woman be allowed to, say, lead a children’s ministry, but not be an administrative pastor of a church?
The key to whether women can teach a children’s ministry is in that they are not teaching men but rather children. These children should still be getting spiritual instruction from their fathers and mothers but are not ready to study on their own. A woman is capable of giving instruction but must submit to God’s authority and instructions.

Titus 2:3-5 3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, 4 so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored

Would you let a woman be a guest speaker and give a sermon?
This is more difficult because a woman could be a very valuable guest speaker, but is that acceptable. I guess it depends on the context of the situation; is it topical or is it preaching? Does that even matter? I would be uncomfortable to have a woman as a guest speaker or giving a sermon during the service but a separate arena may be preferable – a special “class” or speaking opportunity for example. I have to admit that this is a very slippery slope.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. 35 If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

This section follows discussion about speaking in tongues and prophesy and so it may be limited to that concept but I suspect that it may be addressing the issue at Corinth where women may not have been turning to their husbands for spiritual leadership. They may have been trying to circumvent their roles and seeking instruction from other men (not elders) or were even trying to teach other men. I may have tried to cover too many ideas for one post but I hope it makes sense. I’ll respond to any clarifications you have or to expand on these ideas if needed.

When posting arguments for or against, please quote scripture. You can find online bible translations at Bible Gateway. Please understand that I have the utmost respect for Godly women and have no doubt they are very capable of teaching/preaching in the church. It’s just that I understand the scriptures to be God-breathed and true in their entirety. I also understand the scriptures to say that women are not to teach or preach in the church. It never says can’t or incapable of teaching.

Finally, what does this mean in regards to evangelism? Are women not to evangelize? Are they not to share the gospel? I don’t think this is the case. Maybe the instructions from God only applied to the church environment. This may allow for outside studies, books, seminars, children’s ministry, etc.

Note: I respond to comments in bold

UPDATE: this has been re-posted at Blogogetics.com and may have different have to follow.

Share on Twitter or posted to Worship @ 10:07 pm

101 comments

  • At 7:08 am on August 2, 2004, Talondale commented:

    Hey Archshrk, This is Talondale. Good post. I have to agree with you on this. Although women can be affective teachers and speakers, Elizabeth Elliot and Beth Moore, I don’t think they should hold positions of authority in the Church or positions of teaching over men. I would point out that the motive is symbolic in nature and involves the different roles assigned to men and women, and part of the curse in the garden of Eden, not a reflection of the worth or abilities of women.

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  • At 4:53 pm on July 24, 2006, Nat commented:

    I guess we should simply remain in a red tent and listen to men tell us how to live. NOT!

    archshrk responds: That would not be based on scripture. The only one who should have authority over a woman is her father, her husband, and (spiritually) her pastor. Not all men, just those three and only as far as they hold to God’s will. This is the importance of being a godly man. If we, as men, fail to be godly leaders, we are failing our wives, our daughters, and in the case of elders, the people God has entrusted to them.

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    Ms. Scott Reply:

    I guess we are still children then and are supposed to do what all of these men (the ones you named) tell us to do. We are puppets and have no brain so then I guess we are sex toys and punching bags too huh? WRONG YOU ARE ALLLLLL THE WAY WRONG. THE BIBLE IS BEING TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT.

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    Julia Barnett Reply:

    what are you talkn about

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    Ms. Scott Reply:

    If you read all the posts then you would know what I am talking about. Also read my response again. Duh

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    Julia Barnett Reply:

    you be blessed i have not said anything about we have to follow men but i will say this we are to follow our husband if they are following Christ we have to use wisdom to no who he is following i to have been abuse an misused but it made me who i am in the mist of it I found Jesus so I thank my exhusband for what he put me thru it didnt leave me bitter but made me a stronger women and for that I am grateful. you sound very bitter i will be prayn for you.

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    Ms. Scott Reply:

    Ok so it is evident that people do not read so let me say this, I am not bitter so I don’t know where this statement comes from what so ever, but let me make it clear once more that I feel are completely abusive in all manner and that men utilize the scriptures to fit their own agenda and women are stupid enough to follow along with this. To my understanding as a young adult colligate woman who intends to avoid men at all costs because of what I have seen as a child, is that the Old Testament is how we used to live and serves as an example of what Christ has done past tense and the New Testament is the now of how we are supposed to live and there are too many passages in the Bible which point to the now sense, so since you want to take all that I have said and twist it to make me sound like a synical idiot, I thought I would make it more clear to your brain what I meant. I get so angry when people especially women don’t think critically about everything and the elder generation has the nerve to get angry when we young people refuse to even look their way as a means to receive wisdom.

    The next thing that shocks me about this thread is that you did not read between the lines before assuming that I am bitter and why would I be bitter? have I been involved in a relationship of some sort? Oh, let me tell you the answer to that is NO WAY HOSE! I wouldn’t roll like that with any man in any relationship who does not know how to talk to me- i.e. yelling at me and talking to me badly or laying his hands on me or even forcing me to walk 2 to 5 steps behind him or making me stay home from a possible career, with the ultimatum that I had better have things the way he wants them upon his return or else. These are just examples of what I as an African Irish Native American WILL NOT tolerate from any man.

    However, these are also examples of the terror I was forced to endure because my mother felt as though she had to have a man, and this JULIA, is what almost got evey living breathing mechanism is my house mudered by a man who had some serious mental problems. Now given the extent to which things were later carried out, my and my older twin sister vowed that if either one of us were ever in a relationship and we saw warning signs and any form of hostility that we would warn one another to let go and let G*d.

    WOMEN do not need men, we have been strong from the beginning. Look at it this way, if women were to leave the country and move elsewhere and leave men to their egotistical ways, and let men have the man-made pulpit since they feel they own it, and leave these men to themselves they would not know how to survive on their own. Half of them can’t cook, clean or do their own laundry and they don’t know how to run a household. So yes past tense were to be the voice in the church but now G*d saw that that was not working alone anymore and now he utilizes both the man and woman to spread the word.

    The Bible is not gender based and if that is to be the case then the L**d would not have needed women for anything at all. He would have made us a stepping stool for men, which we end up being now in order to suit the male ego. Men DO NOT KNOW how to affirm the fairer sex, and that is why you have young college women like me who become feminists and learn to affirm ourselves. Once women realize that they DO NOT need a man, then this will eliminate this battle of the sexes issue in the pulpit. This is what I meant by my post. I meant nothing else but I guess I will have to be completely direct in what I say from now on.

    NEWS FLASH:

    All of the Bad Habits and forms of betrayal and deceit and hidden secrets and just everything in a nut shell about how to live and how not to live as women we learn it from the elder generation. So you know please be critical in thought before you attempt to judge someone by throwing insults at people about being bitter.

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    Julia Barnett Reply:

    Ms. Scott You be blessed I have no idea Of the comment you made About Men I named All I no this I was checkn my email an saw a message from you sayn I said someting about men that I named an I have no idea what you are talkn about .and i am far from stupid I an doning what God has called me to do an that is to minster so seem like you have taken what I said an twisted it to so maybe we both misunderstood each other be angry but sin not as for me I ask for understanding when I read I no in your studing you have to find out who what when an why did he say what he said I no to search the scripture
    and I also no how to talk to people I am well aware of men trust me an what I went thru God was on my side an I dont regret goin thru it we all have some type of trial weather its a man or our family friend church what ever we will go thru something depend on your calling how bad it will get for christ suffed so i had to if had not been my ex it would have been something else or someone else I suffed for the sake of christ so he could be formed in me not because I wanted to I new what was going on he just didnt i stayed because I fast an prayed about it he said stay and I did so Now that I think about your comment maybe you were agreeing but being sarcastic about the other comments that was made against me because God did call me to preach an people have their oppinion about that some just havent cought the revelation on the word maybe they will an learn to go deep in the scripture an no that its more than just a line or a sentence.

    And my comment was so old I forgot what I realy said but dont recall naming any men an realy dont have the time to look at every post because im at work al day so I take a little time out to step outside my job an goof of a little so please calm down I say that because you sound bitter but maybe you are just upset people can feel you vibes and you cant reach people like that have a warm spirit an we can talk an maybe even make a difference in someone else life ar even our own you sound like I used to sound when I get up set but I think God For saving me he cleaned me up in that marriage I was mean as hell but learned me how to humble myself thru my sitiation .Im a big girl now LOL.

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    Ms. Scott Reply:

    Okay so as I stated before, I was explaining what I meant based on your reponses to my comment. I made no derogatory comments to insult anyone, but I made a comment that you should think clearly about things before you comment or insinuate that someone is bitter because that is no where near the case and it is far from the truth but what I did share with you were some of the highlights as to why there is such a huge fight over the pupit. I even broke it down and took it a little further with explaining the male ego. However, when you responded I saw no evidence that you even know what I am talking about. I first made a comment that based on male ego women are to be seen and never hear in so many words and that we are to be punching bags and you said what am I talking about. I responded telling you and you responded with an insult to my explanation of what I was speaking with regards to and you have once more responded. I cannot understand anything you have said nor make a point of anything you have said due to punctuation and spelling errors and I realize that I cannot have a scholarly discussion with you on the subjuect of women and the pulpit, male egos involved and so much more so I will this discussion here. Have a great day.

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    Julia Barnett Reply:

    like I said Im at work so I am rushing and I feel the same way you feel an im sure there is some punctuation an spelling errors as for as schloarly discussion you have some errors to, im well educated I have a doc. degree im just doin to much at one time I do have a job to do when i get a break its only about 5 mins .yes you were explaing so am i its not that i dont understand. you made a responce to something i wrote an i dont remember what it was it was an old post i guess thats why i dont understand . or maybe you was tryn to respond to some one else and I ask what are you talkn about an you made a smart remark ending in duh. as for me the pulpit does not validate me i minster on the job, phone, streets, an you do have some that are against women preaching but i thank God for my pastor for being who he is an undrestand the word .as for what men think an why they think the way they do an ack the way they do an the ego that they have i can only pray for them an who is to say that they will recieve the word of God in the way it should be.

    Tamicka Reply:

    Wow! I’m not being harsh but you should read what you write yourself. If we read Gods word just as it is there is no way we can take it out of context. At first I wasn’t sure on this topic. But after listening to your empty words of hate and anger. I now see why it’s better for women to keep silent. We tend to respond or act off our emotions. Not once did I see you mention anything that was referenced with scripture. You must be able to control yourself. That one of the fruits of Gods spirit. Obviously you are lacking in that area. I pray that God, through his WORD, give you a more clear understanding!! God bless the women who was trying to answer your ignorant responses!!!

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    Thomas Reply:

    I couldn’t agree with you more. I rebuke the spirit of confusion! I pray that those that have an issue with GODs perfect design that you come to terms with your self and apply what you preach. Ask yourself if there is no LOVE then our LORD isn’t in it. What love is there in denying our sister in CHRIST the power GOD gave her. Who are us men to change GODS perfect Will? I pray you feel convicted today and ask GOD for a renewing of the mind in JESUS name amen!

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    Ms. Scott Reply:

    Ummm, now I am laughing at this because your reply was beyond ignorant and societal standing leaner. I do not go with the trends as you do. So G*d bless you for speaking out of context. And second, just because my statement does not align with society does not mean it was ignorant and as I hae been taught, it takes ignorance to know ignorance….smile

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    Erin Reply:

    I wish more women would respond to questions like this. I just don’t think men, although scripturally able to understand, can understand WHAT IT IS LIKE to be under men their whole lives. Yes, yes, you say how the men must be “servants” and treating women as their own bodies, but you know what? It doesn’t make a difference. Women are still stifled in a sense. Caged. It is like a free white man who read about slavery trying to speak about what it is like to be a black slave. You just can’t.

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    michelle Reply:

    Erin one woman speaking to another. If you feel as though you are cages similar to a slave then there is something wrong. I do not feel this way. I have been freed from the presure of many things. I am not caged. I think for myself. I have an opinion and let my husband hear it every so often. My husband does not slam the rules down we discuss issues and together agree. I attend a Bible College and am growing in knowledge of the Scripture no one say I can or cant do this, I just did. After all why would my husband not want this. I am not “under a man” I am teamed up with a man. We together determine the best response and many times (not always) we choose his way. Why? Because I respect him and know he will never do anything that will harm me in anyway. This is freeing to me: I always know that my husband will do everything in his power to protect me and support me throughout our lives. As for this issue in regards to the pulpit. They can have it. This is a huge responsiblity and no I am not saying woman cant handle responsiblitiy or aren’t capible in leadership. Im saying that in this case God see things a certain way. God has never given a command that is intended to harm both His children or His Kingdom. The intention is to benefit both and His commands are for that purpose alone and if we heed them “all of them” their nothing but positive that will come from it.

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  • At 10:17 pm on February 4, 2007, woman commented:

    too bad men are so ignorant

    archshrk responds: Thanks for commenting. Many people visit this post but few comment. Your observation isn’t very far off. Scripture tells us that men are to be the spiritual head of their family. Unfortunately, far too many men fail to do this, thus forcing women to step up to fill the void. That’s the issue I should write about – the failure of men to lead the church and their families.

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    julia barnett Reply:

    I truley agree with you the men have failed the women in so many ways we have to stand for what we believe in abd that ios the word of God what we have to realize when we read we have to ask for wisdom and understanding .when that scripture was writen and why did he say that, who was he talking to at that time the women were bickering in the church as so many do today if you cant talk without bickering be quite people say we shouldnt wear pants to church its pertaing to a man. please Jesus robe had no seam we shouldnt wear men cloths because its made for man just as women cloths are made for women.a lot this is just up bring from people in the old day could barley read but tried to understand the best they could its more to the word than what it actually say we have to break it down and put it back together.

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  • At 6:08 pm on March 5, 2007, human commented:

    1. Congrats on the proof texting. That’s so original of you.
    2. Newsflash: Paul is not nor will he every be Jesus. Jesus supported women, children, the poor, the taken advantage of – he taught to love one another…he had plenty of opportunity to say that women can not preach but guess what…HE NEVER DID!!! DON’T YOU FIND IT IRONIC THAT THIS OPINION IS FOUND IN ONLY PAUL’S WRITINGS (NOT TO MENTION IT WAS TO A CHURCH IN A TOTALLY DIFFERENT CULTURAL CONTEXT- but then again if you were taking culture into mind when reading the scripture in the 1st place you wouldn’t have written this post)???
    3. Riddle me this: in 1st Corth. Paul says that both men and women are given the gift of/to prophesy…so before he states the ALWAYS proof texted 1st corth. Scripture he states that women and men are to preach (aka prophesy)

    archshrk responds: “Human”, I suspect you don’t believe the whole canon is God’s Word since you pit Paul against Jesus. I imagine you do not hold to the inerrancy of scripture. Talk about prooftexting and misquoting. One of Wayne Grudem’s main points about the egalitarian view is that once biblical manhood and womanhood are undermined, usually the authority and inerrancy of Scripture is quick to follow. Then after that, the Gospel is melted away.

    Taken culturally, the early church was pretty radical. Prior to this, women and men could not worship together. So Paul is speaking to a mixed church of men and women which was previously not possible. I personally find that to be pretty liberating.

    As for the gift of prophesy, at no point does scripture say that women are to refrain from evangelizing or teaching in all forms. In fact, it clearly says that the older women are to teach the younger. The only issue here is whether or not (according to scripture) women are to be elders/pastors within the church.

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  • At 12:42 pm on April 9, 2007, Hope commented:

    I believe the issue of women not being deaconesses or pastors has more to do with the holding of authority than it does the actual instruction on the Word.

    As archshrk has clearly emphasized, there is no question that women are capable of reading and understanding the Word as well as, or even in some individual cases better than men.

    As an example of what I mean: A woman may have had more opportunity to study a particular passage of scripture which a male acquaintance has only recently begun to study or may be struggling with. If the subject should arise in conversation, it would seem ridiculous for the woman to withhold such knowledge or understanding which she has gained, simply because she is a woman and he is a man.

    Another example might be a woman leading a one time Bible Study on a particular subject or section of Scripture. One time would be fine, however it should not be a regular occurrence, for that would place her in a position of authority. It’s tricky to word, but the difference is something like that of a guest speaker, verses our church Pastor. One holds authority over us and has the ability to hold us accountable, the other is simply someone we look to as a source of knowledge. As with anyone the source must be tried by the Scriptures.

    As for women writing scripture based books and articles, or holding seminars I see no authority issue there, and therefor no reason for women to refrain from such activities. . . . . But then, if you disagree with that last statement, you’ve probably disregarded my posting altogether anyway.

    I realize this is a touchy subject, and one which may be difficult to discuss clearly online, so please be gracious in your questions and responses.

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  • At 9:09 am on April 11, 2007, Josh commented:

    Great Post, I’ve been looking for some actual biblical evidence on this; as it seems to come up a couple times a year. I’ve had a few dicussions with women about this, and it’s never a matter of capability, or capacity; women are amazing and truly the crown of creation. It’s a matter of what we were created for. That’s where my conversations end up anyway.
    I also find it incredibly interesting that opposition (those in favor of women preachers) always challenge the word of God, reminds me of the Serpents first question (Gen 3:1).

    archshrk responds: Thanks for visiting and your comment. It’s a very tricky subject that many people (including Christians) get upset about. A really good article that I found helpful is Foundation of Biblical Manhood. It does a great job of using scripture to show that, while our roles are different, we are created equally in the image of God. There’s also a series of sermons that addresses the roles of women and men and the Christ-centered, biblical models of what it means to be a Godly image bearer. The series can be found under “topical” sermons.

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  • At 3:58 am on April 19, 2007, Karen commented:

    Hi. In reference to scripture pertaining to the “fall”…and that is why Paul says woman must not teach. I thought God’s blood bought people of the new covenant are to rise above all the guilt from the fall? I thought we are to be living a new life in Christ? Free Indeed! ???? Please answer this for me….why are woman kept in the post-fall condition of sin and condemnation in the aspect of man rule? Did God or did God not tell Eve her husband would rule over her as a result of sin entering the world? This as I see it is one of the last bastions of God’s divine plan to teach and guide the church…. “Your son’s AND DAUGHTERS will SPEAK FOR GOD!” Just like many other times and topics…the church fights the spirit every step of the way.The subordination of woman is not the “picture of Christ and the church”, It is the picture of man and sin.

    Love In Jesus,

    Karen

    archshrk responds: Hi, Karen. Josh’s reference to the fall in Gen 3:1 is demonstrating how the serpent “misquoted” God’s instructions to Adam. Christ’s blood does atone for our sins, but it does not remove the sin nature. Rather, we are forgiven because Christ imputes His righteousness on us and He takes on our sin (and the penalty) at the cross. Now, looking at Gen 3:16, we see that in the fallen state, Eve’s desire would be for her husband. The Hebrew word for desire is the same word used regarding sin’s desire for Cain. And Cain was told to rule over it (but he did not). This is all speaking of the relationship between a husband and wife but we can look at it to see how it applies to Federal Headship. In every covenant, there is a single point of contact. That is, someone is responsible for it. OT examples would include Adam, Abraham and Moses. When we apply that model to the church we see that the marriage imagery and the covenantal relations still apply. In this case, the elder/pastor is the covenant head over the body, much like Christ is over the church. This does not mean that women are not to evangelize. Simply that they are not to hold authority over men (within the church).

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  • At 9:39 pm on April 29, 2007, Al commented:

    If some would actually take the time to do a historical critique, (real research on biblical topics) they would be amazed to find out the reasons for Paul’s comments on women.

    Women have been abused through the ages in the church. Women are just as capable as men to preach. Also, too many Christian husbands distort the word “submit” in order to control their wives. When a husband does this, he is in sin for many reasons; one is that he is not “loving” his wife according to the scriptural directive. Amazing that many are slow to address this issue.

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  • At 1:36 am on May 2, 2007, Sam Nzimande commented:

    I am confused. Yes biblically women are not to be pastors but then what is it that makes them feel God has called them to it? If they aren’t supposed to preach\teach, then what are they supposed to do?

    archshrk responds: Good question. At no point does scripture say that women are to refrain from evangelize or teaching in all forms. In fact, it clearly says that the older women are to teach the younger. The only issue here is whether or not (according to scripture) women are to be elders/pastors within the church. As for what makes them feel called to do it…well that’s a bit tougher. 1) men have failed to lead within the church. and 2) it’s part of our sin nature as described in Gen 3:16 where the word for desire is the same Hebrew word used to to describe sin’s desire over Cain in Gen. 4:7

    As for what women are to do, aside from evangelize, they are to be “helpers suitable”. Eve was created to be a helper suitable for Adam (Genesis 2:18-23) and this is no small obligation. We see that in John 14:25-27 the Holy Spirit is referred to as a helper. In much the same way, a good wife helps her husband remember what God has said to him. My wife does this very well and her help makes me a better leader of our household. But what about single women. Simply put, they are to prepare themselves to be a “helper suitable”. First to their fathers and then to their husbands.

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  • At 10:37 am on May 10, 2007, josh dills commented:

    thanks for posting the biblical proof of a woman not being allowed to preach. i live in Georgia and have been having a problem with the more charismatic denominations belief that a woman can stand in the place of a man. they need to realize that they are rebelling against Gods word. i have been preaching for four years now, and am proud to see someone with enough spiritual backbone about them to stand for God word and not the popular idea. And as for the man’s comment about Jesus never saying a woman cant preach, i have a question. were any of the disciples women? Once again thanks for posting the truth and not the popular opinion.

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    Sharon Montgomery Reply:

    Yes some of the disciples were women, PASTOR. A disciple is a follower of Christ; RIGHT? There were many disciples but 12 were chosen. The bible tells us Mary followed Jesus, RIGHT? These posts are a firm of arguing the scriptures which the BIBLE prohibits, RIGHT? There is one judge and I have seen God manifest his powers through some Great women of God. The Bible also tell us many will be confused at Paul’s teaching so I am so glad God’s word is being fulfilled daily. Thanks,
    We are here to save the lost not to critigue other believers.
    Be Blessed and let not your hearts be troubled. The end SHALL speak and not lie!
    AMEN
    Sharon Montgomery

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    Ms. Scott Reply:

    I think what ALL women need to do is to leave all of you men alone in your manmade pulpits and move to another country and let yall have your pulpits.

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  • At 1:05 pm on May 16, 2007, The Rev. commented:

    Good discussion here. But how literal can we take the scriptures? Very? Not so very? Overall, there seems to be a lot of contradictions pointed out from both sides of the road here. May I point out a couple things. First, let’s look at how “literal” Abraham took what he believed to be the Word of God in his heart when he took his only son to kill him as a sacrifice to God. Even though this was long before the Commandments were handed down to Moses, we have to concur that killing was established as something to be punished for. Many question the existance of “law” before Moses’ time. But it had to exist because of the situation between Cain and Abel. Yet, Abraham was willing to go so far as to break this law in his trusted obedience to what he truly believed was expected of him by God. There are so many instances through the Bible in both the Old and New that it would take too much time to reference them here. But as a woman, I truly believe God has placed a call on my heart to do what ever is necessary to reach the lost and dying world, even to the point of self sacifice. Now, that is not to reduce the liberty of the Blood of Jesus as a means to sin, but it does recognize that, within the limits of Divine instigation of discernment, I will follow what I believe to be correct in God’s eyes, even if it is in contradiction to someone else’s personal conviction of right and wrong. I have that much faith in my relationship with God the Father through Jesus.

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  • At 9:38 am on June 5, 2007, Jay commented:

    If some claim women shouldn’t preach at all then what about Sunday school? You have ladies teaching Sunday school to kids in Churches generation after generation. If christian ladies are not allowed to speak or teach Sunday school classes to kids in Church then they shouldn’t be allowed to speak or teach altogether. People who think such foolishness that a christian woman should not be allowed to preach or teach the Bible…doesn’t know Scripture. I have problems with either man or woman who aren’t called of God to pastor a church and yet you have them pastoring a church. They may know the ins and outs of pastoring but if they’re not called of God to pastorship then the church have problems. Wrong people in leadership will cause the church to go down hill. Spiritual growth will be non existent. Basically a dead church.

    archshrk responds: You are correct in that churches should not be lead by people who are not called to lead. The scriptures clearly describes who is called to lead. We see in Titus 1:5-16 and 1 Timothy 3:1-13 the qualifications for an elder and we see in Ephesians 4:11-16 that not everyone is called to be an elder of the church. But do not confuse history with scripture. Just because something has been done for generation after generation, does not mean it is biblical. Sunday School is not even described in scripture. So what model is it based on? For us, our children’s ministry is headed my a godly man and lead my other godly men with godly women assisting them.

    Our God works through covenants. It is through these covenants that He interacts with man and establishes blessings, consequences and ultimately our hope in salvation. In each covenant God establishes a specific person to be held primarily responsible. In the Old Testament we see some of the covenants between God & covenant heads:

    Examples:
    Adam (Hosea 6:7; Romans 5:12-21; I Corinthians 15:21-22)
    Noah (Genesis 6:18, Gen. 9:9-17)
    Abraham (Gen. 12:2-3, Gen. 17:2-21, Exodus 2:24)
    Moses (Exodus 34:10, Exodus 34:27-28; Leviticus 24:45)
    David (II Chronicles 7:18, II Chronicles 21:7)

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  • At 1:26 pm on July 11, 2007, OTIS SHORT commented:

    THIS IS TYPICAL STATEMENTS COMING FROM PEOPLE.SHOULD A WOMAN BE ALLOWED TO PREACH.THE BIBLE PLAINLY SAYS NO.BUT WAIT!!!AS USUAL MOST PEOPLE WILL TWIST THE SCRIPTURES TO WHERE IT SAYS WHAT THEY WANT IT TO SAY TO THERE BENEFIT.LIKE PEOPLE ASK WHAT WILL BE GOD’D WAY BUT,LIKE BURGER KING WE WANT IT OUR WAY.

    archshrk responds: having trouble reading this comment? I typically don’t edit people’s comments but when needed, I’ll edit for clarity. This comment seemed hard to read but I didn’t want to add or remove from the commenter’s original impact. So I simply added my interpretation of the comment below.

    These are typical statements coming from people.

    Should a woman be allowed to preach? The bible plainly says no. But wait, as usual, most people will twist the scriptures to say what they want it to say – to their benefit. For example, people ask “What will be God’s way” but, like burger king, we want it our way.

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  • At 6:38 pm on July 23, 2007, Mr. Rémi commented:

    I don’t think our dear women should even be worship leaders. They can be singers yes and teach younger women and maybe small kids and a lot of other thing that doesn’t include teaching or having authority over men.
    Where in San Diego can we find a biblical church with women not having authority over men?
    If we can’t find one I think we should start one if it is God will.
    Also I believe we should not borrow money from banks because if we do we would become slave of them. Instead let us trust fully in God providence. Alleluya
    Respectfully

    archshrk responds: Looking for San Diego Churches? Look here. I think you’ll find several churches that hold to scripture as the inerrant word of God. As for the issue of borrowing money…I would agree but that’s another topic.

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  • At 4:35 pm on July 30, 2007, Tamekia commented:

    I recently started searching the scriptures to see what the bibles says about women preaching. From the scripts I have found the answer is no. I am not one of those people who grew up in the church and been taught something from my church I have been really looking for the truth.These are the scripts that I have found 1tim.2:11-15 WOMEN LEARN IN SILENCE,WOMEN SHOULD NOT HAVE AUTHORITY OVER A MAN, ADAM WAS FORMED FIRST AND HE WAS NOT THE ONE TO BE DECEIVED BUT THE WOMAN WAS DECEIVED AND FELL INTO TRANSGRESSION. 1cor11:3 THE HEAD OF EVERY MAN IS CHRIST, HEAD OF WOMAN IS MAN AND THE HEAD OF MAN IS CHRIST. IF THE MAN IS HEAD OF WOMAN HOW COULD A WOMAN BE OVER ANY MAN. I read someones comment earlier that stated they thought we were not under the law anymore. This is what helped me, before Jesus died animals were being sacrificed, and after Jesus came and was resurrected we no longer sacrificed animals anymore, and the New Testament never stated that we had to. In Gen it was stated that man ruling over woman was a result of sin, but because the bible continued to talk about man been rulers over women in the New Testament assured me it was something that still exists, if it didn’t I think he would have never brought it over into the New Testament the way that he did. Might sound crazy but that is what helped me. There are other scripts that I found but it will definitely take to long to type them all in. Thanks and I hope this doesn’t offend anyone. By the way I have been really trying to understand where did TRINITY come from because I haven’t been able to find it in the bible I think someone said it talks about it in an indirect way but I want the actual scripts that talks about the trinity and scripts where the word trinity was actually used. Thanks So Much

    archshrk responds: While the word “Trinity” does not appear in Scripture, the concept very clearly does. Church father Tertullian (155-220 ad) was the first to use the word “Trinity.” To say that God exists as a Trinity does not mean that there are three Gods, or that one God merely manifests Himself as either Father, Son, and Holy Spirit on various occasions.

    To say that God exists as a Trinity is to say that there is one God with a unified essence who exists in three equal persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. By person it is meant that God thinks, feels, acts and speaks. The Westminster Confession of Faith (1647) summarizes the doctrine by saying, “In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost.” – Kaleo

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  • At 8:26 am on August 6, 2007, Duke commented:

    I think this is one of those issues where you can find verses that seem contradictory. It’s easy enough to pull verses out that show either view point, but determining the truth is much more difficult.

    Romans 16:1 calls Phoebe a “diakonos” or deaconess. Deacon means servant, and this same word is used in places like Philippians 1:1 to say the letter is written to the “bishops and deacons.” The word “diakonos” is translated in various verses as minister, deacon, or servant.

    archshrk responds: It is true that the word Deacon does come from the Greek word for servant, but it does not mean that every time the word diakonos is used, it means ‘deacon’.

    Phoebe is called a “servant of the church of Cenchrea.” The word, ‘servant,’ is what is occasionally translated as ‘minister,’ or less often as ‘deacon.’ It is clear in the context of this chapter and the Bible that Phoebe had no authority over a man, she was a fellow helper in Christ, a servant. Some people argue that In verse 2 the Greek word prostatis applies to Phoebe and means, “one who presides over an assembly.” No such meaning can be found in New Testament times; the word simply means “helper”, “assistant”, or “patroness.”

    Clear scriptures interpret vague ones and the Bible clearly teaches that a woman cannot have authority over a man in a church setting (1 Timothy 2:11-12). Therefore, taking into account the many verses and examples that we have throughout the whole of scripture, the obscure passage of Romans 16:1-2 should not be used to support a woman having authority over a man when we have clear passages that forbid it.

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  • At 6:25 am on August 31, 2007, as commented:

    Ok well what about Deberoha in the bible who led people out of slavery, she was a leader. I think that people have to take the scripture in context. if we took everything that literally, today women wouldn’t wear makeup or have short hair. some of these things are cultural. as in those days if a woman wore makeup she would be seen as a prostitute, but now the majority of women do wear makeup. Also God didn’t want women preaching because they hadn’t been taught how to and they were saying stupid things. Any scripture read should be noted of who it may have been written for, the traditions and culture as well as reading beforehand of what had happened and getting a clear understanding of the particular book.

    archshrk responds: The function of judges was primarily martial and judicial. As a judge, Deborah helped people make wise choices in their lives in the absence of prominent godly leadership among the people. But, Judges were neither anointed nor were their decisions binding as a King’s decisions would. Now compare the Prophetess Deborah to Eli, who was both high priest and judge and you see that Deborah was a Godly woman and a good leader, but she was not an Elder or Deacon of the church.

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  • At 1:50 pm on September 12, 2007, Sister Sunshine commented:

    I agree with you archshrk. great blog!!!!

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  • At 10:13 pm on September 14, 2007, minister commented:

    This is a great opportunity to discuss this issue; and I do mean discuss. We may not all agree, but we should never be found insulting and bringing other brothers and sisters of Christ down. Anyway, about our subject, we must be very careful in reading scripture without first knowing how the orignal greek reads. In the greek, I know that the bible clearing says the women and men have their roles and each one is important. Also, the greek is clear about God not calling women to be pastors. However, in 1 Tim 2:12, the greek rendering is not “women” but wives. How do we know this since the same greek word is used for both women and wives? The context of the scripture. The greek word for man here, is “husband”. So therefore, since not all women had husbands, this verse can not possibly be a blanket statement that all women are not to preach. Furthermore, the KJV translation here is not adequate. When it comes to “usurping authority” it should read “by usurping authority”. Paul is saying that wives should never use the opportunities to teach, to degrade, talk down to, nor lord over their husbands. In all actuallity, this particular verse does not even refer to inside the church behavior and roles. I just addressed it because it seems to be the verse that everyone is using to say women are not called by God to preach. We can “discuss’ other scriptures if desired, but I am guessing that this one will generate more than enough “holy ghost filled” chatter. Before I sign off, I must say however that Archshrk, you are the first person that I have met that is against women preaching or pastoring with such a gentle, polite and Christ-like spirit. My discernment of you may be totally off, but I don’t think so. This is the only reason I decided to post. I have read numerous blogs and they are filled with people more concerned with stamping home their point, than honoring Christ with their responses. Prov 15:1 Be Blessed

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  • At 11:13 pm on September 30, 2007, christina commented:

    Some have questioned why, if Jesus did indeed approve of women leading churches, did he not have a woman apostle. Some above even used this item as evidence that Jesus supporting having women in a submissive role…So i ask you, what is your position on the Apostle Junia? So clearly a female that Paul also writes about? And Jesus’ radical decision to travel with women in his company? Even his closest compatriots questioned this radical notion, right? And what about the fact that Jesus not only preached that men and women were equal in heaven, but treated them as equals on earth? no where in the NT did he ever patronize or put down any women, in fact he praised many women and broke bread with many women and respected their advice and knowledge…And if we don’t use some historical context in examining Paul’s writings, how do we understand when he wrote to the corinthians and told them to not marry, if they were not already married, when he clearly, in other letters, praise the sacrament of marriage and encourages us to seek married relationships? If we use historical context in some of his writings, where do we draw the line? I am not agreeing or disagreeing with anything said above, these are just questions i would like to have your opinion on…thank you

    archshrk responds: Romans 16:7 (English Standard Version)
    Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me.
    Here, Jania is sometimes translated as Janias and apostles is translated as messengers. Either way, the people Paul is referencing are not referred to as apostles but rather “known to the apostles”. The phrase my kinsmen is Paul’s way of saying they are Jewish, like him. To be “well know” or “prominent” or “great among” means they are godly people who have a good reputation with the apostles.

    As for Jesus’ treatment and interaction with women, there is no conflict here. At no point am I trying to argue that women are lesser people. Genesis clearly says we are created as co-heirs to the kingdom. But just as Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the Father have different roles within the Triune Godhead, so women and men are created with different roles. As as it applies to Spiritual headship and authority within the church, God has given that role to men. The problem is that, as sinners, we have rejected our roles and responsibilities. The beauty of this, is that a strong women is a “helper suitable” to a strong man. But too often, strong women marry weaker men. This leads to wrong relationships that adds conflict to the union.

    On the issue of marriage, Paul’s point was that lust distracts us from focusing on God. God created marriage because it is not right that man should be alone. He created a helper suitable for this very reason. But we need to look at the need. God exists in the perfect relationship of the Triune Godhead – we do not. In order for us to experience a similar relationship, he created marriage. That is why the roles are so important.

    There are plenty of women stronger (and more spiritual) than me, but I have been called to be the spiritual head of my household. If I am not strong enough to lead or my wife is not strong enough to be a help, then our relationship suffers.

    I hope I’ve been able to explain myself on these questions clearly. If you want more clarification or new questions have come up, feel free to email me directly (or leave another comment)

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