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July 31, 2004
Should Women be allowed to Preach?
1 Timothy 2:11-12 11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
Should a woman be allowed to be a deacon(ess) or an elder in a church?
I would say that it goes against scripture to allow deaconesses or women elders (pastors). While many women out there could clearly teach me a thing or two about God and scripture, that would go against the model of federal headship. Man is the head of the family…
1 Corinthians 11:3 3 But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.Ephesians 5:22-24 22 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. 24 But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.
Why would a woman be allowed to, say, lead a children’s ministry, but not be an administrative pastor of a church?
The key to whether women can teach a children’s ministry is in that they are not teaching men but rather children. These children should still be getting spiritual instruction from their fathers and mothers but are not ready to study on their own. A woman is capable of giving instruction but must submit to God’s authority and instructions.
Titus 2:3-5 3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, 4 so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored
Would you let a woman be a guest speaker and give a sermon?
This is more difficult because a woman could be a very valuable guest speaker, but is that acceptable. I guess it depends on the context of the situation; is it topical or is it preaching? Does that even matter? I would be uncomfortable to have a woman as a guest speaker or giving a sermon during the service but a separate arena may be preferable - a special “class” or speaking opportunity for example. I have to admit that this is a very slippery slope.
1 Corinthians 14:34-35 34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. 35 If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.
This section follows discussion about speaking in tongues and prophesy and so it may be limited to that concept but I suspect that it may be addressing the issue at Corinth where women may not have been turning to their husbands for spiritual leadership. They may have been trying to circumvent their roles and seeking instruction from other men (not elders) or were even trying to teach other men. I may have tried to cover too many ideas for one post but I hope it makes sense. I’ll respond to any clarifications you have or to expand on these ideas if needed.
When posting arguments for or against, please quote scripture. You can find online bible translations at Bible Gateway. Please understand that I have the utmost respect for Godly women and have no doubt they are very capable of teaching/preaching in the church. It’s just that I understand the scriptures to be God-breathed and true in their entirety. I also understand the scriptures to say that women are not to teach or preach in the church. It never says can’t or incapable of teaching.
Finally, what does this mean in regards to evangelism? Are women not to evangelize? Are they not to share the gospel? I don’t think this is the case. Maybe the instructions from God only applied to the church environment. This may allow for outside studies, books, seminars, children’s ministry, etc.
Note: I respond to comments in bold
UPDATE: this has been re-posted at Blogogetics.com, please leave future comments on that post.
Similar Posts:
Rose Is Rose • Women and Headcoverings • The Proposal • What do you view is the wife’s position in the household? • Sheep and Goats and Kaleo Church
At 7:08 am on August 2, 2004, Talondale commented:
Hey Archshrk, This is Talondale. Good post. I have to agree with you on this. Although women can be affective teachers and speakers, Elizabeth Elliot and Beth Moore, I don’t think they should hold positions of authority in the Church or positions of teaching over men. I would point out that the motive is symbolic in nature and involves the different roles assigned to men and women, and part of the curse in the garden of Eden, not a reflection of the worth or abilities of women.
At 4:53 pm on July 24, 2006, Nat commented:
I guess we should simply remain in a red tent and listen to men tell us how to live. NOT!
archshrk responds: That would not be based on scripture. The only one who should have authority over a woman is her father, her husband, and (spiritually) her pastor. Not all men, just those three and only as far as they hold to God’s will. This is the importance of being a godly man. If we, as men, fail to be godly leaders, we are failing our wives, our daughters, and in the case of elders, the people God has entrusted to them.
At 10:17 pm on February 4, 2007, woman commented:
too bad men are so ignorant
archshrk responds: Thanks for commenting. Many people visit this post but few comment. Your observation isn’t very far off. Scripture tells us that men are to be the spiritual head of their family. Unfortunately, far too many men fail to do this, thus forcing women to step up to fill the void. That’s the issue I should write about - the failure of men to lead the church and their families.
At 6:08 pm on March 5, 2007, human commented:
1. Congrats on the proof texting. That’s so original of you.
2. Newsflash: Paul is not nor will he every be Jesus. Jesus supported women, children, the poor, the taken advantage of – he taught to love one another…he had plenty of opportunity to say that women can not preach but guess what…HE NEVER DID!!! DON’T YOU FIND IT IRONIC THAT THIS OPINION IS FOUND IN ONLY PAUL’S WRITINGS (NOT TO MENTION IT WAS TO A CHURCH IN A TOTALLY DIFFERENT CULTURAL CONTEXT- but then again if you were taking culture into mind when reading the scripture in the 1st place you wouldn’t have written this post)???
3. Riddle me this: in 1st Corth. Paul says that both men and women are given the gift of/to prophesy…so before he states the ALWAYS proof texted 1st corth. Scripture he states that women and men are to preach (aka prophesy)
archshrk responds: “Human”, I suspect you don’t believe the whole canon is God’s Word since you pit Paul against Jesus. I imagine you do not hold to the inerrancy of scripture. Talk about prooftexting and misquoting. One of Wayne Grudem’s main points about the egalitarian view is that once biblical manhood and womanhood are undermined, usually the authority and inerrancy of Scripture is quick to follow. Then after that, the Gospel is melted away.
Taken culturally, the early church was pretty radical. Prior to this, women and men could not worship together. So Paul is speaking to a mixed church of men and women which was previously not possible. I personally find that to be pretty liberating.
As for the gift of prophesy, at no point does scripture say that women are to refrain from evangelizing or teaching in all forms. In fact, it clearly says that the older women are to teach the younger. The only issue here is whether or not (according to scripture) women are to be elders/pastors within the church.
At 12:42 pm on April 9, 2007, Hope commented:
I believe the issue of women not being deaconesses or pastors has more to do with the holding of authority than it does the actual instruction on the Word.
As archshrk has clearly emphasized, there is no question that women are capable of reading and understanding the Word as well as, or even in some individual cases better than men.
As an example of what I mean: A woman may have had more opportunity to study a particular passage of scripture which a male acquaintance has only recently begun to study or may be struggling with. If the subject should arise in conversation, it would seem ridiculous for the woman to withhold such knowledge or understanding which she has gained, simply because she is a woman and he is a man.
Another example might be a woman leading a one time Bible Study on a particular subject or section of Scripture. One time would be fine, however it should not be a regular occurrence, for that would place her in a position of authority. It’s tricky to word, but the difference is something like that of a guest speaker, verses our church Pastor. One holds authority over us and has the ability to hold us accountable, the other is simply someone we look to as a source of knowledge. As with anyone the source must be tried by the Scriptures.
As for women writing scripture based books and articles, or holding seminars I see no authority issue there, and therefor no reason for women to refrain from such activities. . . . . But then, if you disagree with that last statement, you’ve probably disregarded my posting altogether anyway.
I realize this is a touchy subject, and one which may be difficult to discuss clearly online, so please be gracious in your questions and responses.
At 9:09 am on April 11, 2007, Josh commented:
Great Post, I’ve been looking for some actual biblical evidence on this; as it seems to come up a couple times a year. I’ve had a few dicussions with women about this, and it’s never a matter of capability, or capacity; women are amazing and truly the crown of creation. It’s a matter of what we were created for. That’s where my conversations end up anyway.
I also find it incredibly interesting that opposition (those in favor of women preachers) always challenge the word of God, reminds me of the Serpents first question (Gen 3:1).
archshrk responds: Thanks for visiting and your comment. It’s a very tricky subject that many people (including Christians) get upset about. A really good article that I found helpful is Foundation of Biblical Manhood from Kaleo Church (where I attend). It does a great job of using scripture to show that, while our roles are different, we are created equally in the image of God. There’s also a series of sermons that addresses the roles of women and men and the Christ-centered, biblical models of what it means to be a Godly image bearer. The series can be found under “topical” sermons.
At 3:58 am on April 19, 2007, Karen commented:
Hi. In reference to scripture pertaining to the “fall”…and that is why Paul says woman must not teach. I thought God’s blood bought people of the new covenant are to rise above all the guilt from the fall? I thought we are to be living a new life in Christ? Free Indeed! ???? Please answer this for me….why are woman kept in the post-fall condition of sin and condemnation in the aspect of man rule? Did God or did God not tell Eve her husband would rule over her as a result of sin entering the world? This as I see it is one of the last bastions of God’s divine plan to teach and guide the church…. “Your son’s AND DAUGHTERS will SPEAK FOR GOD!” Just like many other times and topics…the church fights the spirit every step of the way.The subordination of woman is not the “picture of Christ and the church”, It is the picture of man and sin.
Love In Jesus,
Karen
archshrk responds: Hi, Karen. Josh’s reference to the fall in Gen 3:1 is demonstrating how the serpent “misquoted” God’s instructions to Adam. Christ’s blood does atone for our sins, but it does not remove the sin nature. Rather, we are forgiven because Christ imputes His righteousness on us and He takes on our sin (and the penalty) at the cross. Now, looking at Gen 3:16, we see that in the fallen state, Eve’s desire would be for her husband. The Hebrew word for desire is the same word used regarding sin’s desire for Cain. And Cain was told to rule over it (but he did not). This is all speaking of the relationship between a husband and wife but we can look at it to see how it applies to Federal Headship. In every covenant, there is a single point of contact. That is, someone is responsible for it. OT examples would include Adam, Abraham and Moses. When we apply that model to the church we see that the marriage imagery and the covenantal relations still apply. In this case, the elder/pastor is the covenant head over the body, much like Christ is over the church. This does not mean that women are not to evangelize. Simply that they are not to hold authority over men (within the church).
At 9:39 pm on April 29, 2007, Al commented:
If some would actually take the time to do a historical critique, (real research on biblical topics) they would be amazed to find out the reasons for Paul’s comments on women.
Women have been abused through the ages in the church. Women are just as capable as men to preach. Also, too many Christian husbands distort the word “submit” in order to control their wives. When a husband does this, he is in sin for many reasons; one is that he is not “loving” his wife according to the scriptural directive. Amazing that many are slow to address this issue.
At 1:36 am on May 2, 2007, Sam Nzimande commented:
I am confused. Yes biblically women are not to be pastors but then what is it that makes them feel God has called them to it? If they aren’t supposed to preach\teach, then what are they supposed to do?
archshrk responds: Good question. At no point does scripture say that women are to refrain from evangelize or teaching in all forms. In fact, it clearly says that the older women are to teach the younger. The only issue here is whether or not (according to scripture) women are to be elders/pastors within the church. As for what makes them feel called to do it…well that’s a bit tougher. 1) men have failed to lead within the church. and 2) it’s part of our sin nature as described in Gen 3:16 where the word for desire is the same Hebrew word used to to describe sin’s desire over Cain in Gen. 4:7
As for what women are to do, aside from evangelize, they are to be “helpers suitable”. Eve was created to be a helper suitable for Adam (Genesis 2:18-23) and this is no small obligation. We see that in John 14:25-27 the Holy Spirit is referred to as a helper. In much the same way, a good wife helps her husband remember what God has said to him. My wife does this very well and her help makes me a better leader of our household. But what about single women. Simply put, they are to prepare themselves to be a “helper suitable”. First to their fathers and then to their husbands.
At 10:37 am on May 10, 2007, josh dills commented:
thanks for posting the biblical proof of a woman not being allowed to preach. i live in Georgia and have been having a problem with the more charismatic denominations belief that a woman can stand in the place of a man. they need to realize that they are rebelling against Gods word. i have been preaching for four years now, and am proud to see someone with enough spiritual backbone about them to stand for God word and not the popular idea. And as for the man’s comment about Jesus never saying a woman cant preach, i have a question. were any of the disciples women? Once again thanks for posting the truth and not the popular opinion.
At 1:05 pm on May 16, 2007, The Rev. commented:
Good discussion here. But how literal can we take the scriptures? Very? Not so very? Overall, there seems to be a lot of contradictions pointed out from both sides of the road here. May I point out a couple things. First, let’s look at how “literal” Abraham took what he believed to be the Word of God in his heart when he took his only son to kill him as a sacrifice to God. Even though this was long before the Commandments were handed down to Moses, we have to concur that killing was established as something to be punished for. Many question the existance of “law” before Moses’ time. But it had to exist because of the situation between Cain and Abel. Yet, Abraham was willing to go so far as to break this law in his trusted obedience to what he truly believed was expected of him by God. There are so many instances through the Bible in both the Old and New that it would take too much time to reference them here. But as a woman, I truly believe God has placed a call on my heart to do what ever is necessary to reach the lost and dying world, even to the point of self sacifice. Now, that is not to reduce the liberty of the Blood of Jesus as a means to sin, but it does recognize that, within the limits of Divine instigation of discernment, I will follow what I believe to be correct in God’s eyes, even if it is in contradiction to someone else’s personal conviction of right and wrong. I have that much faith in my relationship with God the Father through Jesus.
At 9:38 am on June 5, 2007, Jay commented:
If some claim women shouldn’t preach at all then what about Sunday school? You have ladies teaching Sunday school to kids in Churches generation after generation. If christian ladies are not allowed to speak or teach Sunday school classes to kids in Church then they shouldn’t be allowed to speak or teach altogether. People who think such foolishness that a christian woman should not be allowed to preach or teach the Bible…doesn’t know Scripture. I have problems with either man or woman who aren’t called of God to pastor a church and yet you have them pastoring a church. They may know the ins and outs of pastoring but if they’re not called of God to pastorship then the church have problems. Wrong people in leadership will cause the church to go down hill. Spiritual growth will be non existent. Basically a dead church.
archshrk responds: You are correct in that churches should not be lead by people who are not called to lead. The scriptures clearly describes who is called to lead. We see in Titus 1:5-16 and 1 Timothy 3:1-13 the qualifications for an elder and we see in Ephesians 4:11-16 that not everyone is called to be an elder of the church. But do not confuse history with scripture. Just because something has been done for generation after generation, does not mean it is biblical. Sunday School is not even described in scripture. So what model is it based on? For us, our children’s ministry is headed my a godly man and lead my other godly men with godly women assisting them.
Our God works through covenants. It is through these covenants that He interacts with man and establishes blessings, consequences and ultimately our hope in salvation. In each covenant God establishes a specific person to be held primarily responsible. In the Old Testament we see some of the covenants between God & covenant heads:
Examples:
Adam (Hosea 6:7; Romans 5:12-21; I Corinthians 15:21-22)
Noah (Genesis 6:18, Gen. 9:9-17)
Abraham (Gen. 12:2-3, Gen. 17:2-21, Exodus 2:24)
Moses (Exodus 34:10, Exodus 34:27-28; Leviticus 24:45)
David (II Chronicles 7:18, II Chronicles 21:7)
At 1:26 pm on July 11, 2007, OTIS SHORT commented:
THIS IS TYPICAL STATEMENTS COMING FROM PEOPLE.SHOULD A WOMAN BE ALLOWED TO PREACH.THE BIBLE PLAINLY SAYS NO.BUT WAIT!!!AS USUAL MOST PEOPLE WILL TWIST THE SCRIPTURES TO WHERE IT SAYS WHAT THEY WANT IT TO SAY TO THERE BENEFIT.LIKE PEOPLE ASK WHAT WILL BE GOD’D WAY BUT,LIKE BURGER KING WE WANT IT OUR WAY.
archshrk responds: having trouble reading this comment? I typically don’t edit people’s comments but when needed, I’ll edit for clarity. This comment seemed hard to read but I didn’t want to add or remove from the commenter’s original impact. So I simply added my interpretation of the comment below.
At 6:38 pm on July 23, 2007, Mr. Rémi commented:
I don’t think our dear women should even be worship leaders. They can be singers yes and teach younger women and maybe small kids and a lot of other thing that doesn’t include teaching or having authority over men.
Where in San Diego can we find a biblical church with women not having authority over men?
If we can’t find one I think we should start one if it is God will.
Also I believe we should not borrow money from banks because if we do we would become slave of them. Instead let us trust fully in God providence. Alleluya
Respectfully
archshrk responds: Looking for San Diego Churches? Look here. I think you’ll find several churches that hold to scripture as the inerrant word of God. As for the issue of borrowing money…I would agree but that’s another topic.
At 4:35 pm on July 30, 2007, Tamekia commented:
I recently started searching the scriptures to see what the bibles says about women preaching. From the scripts I have found the answer is no. I am not one of those people who grew up in the church and been taught something from my church I have been really looking for the truth.These are the scripts that I have found 1tim.2:11-15 WOMEN LEARN IN SILENCE,WOMEN SHOULD NOT HAVE AUTHORITY OVER A MAN, ADAM WAS FORMED FIRST AND HE WAS NOT THE ONE TO BE DECEIVED BUT THE WOMAN WAS DECEIVED AND FELL INTO TRANSGRESSION. 1cor11:3 THE HEAD OF EVERY MAN IS CHRIST, HEAD OF WOMAN IS MAN AND THE HEAD OF MAN IS CHRIST. IF THE MAN IS HEAD OF WOMAN HOW COULD A WOMAN BE OVER ANY MAN. I read someones comment earlier that stated they thought we were not under the law anymore. This is what helped me, before Jesus died animals were being sacrificed, and after Jesus came and was resurrected we no longer sacrificed animals anymore, and the New Testament never stated that we had to. In Gen it was stated that man ruling over woman was a result of sin, but because the bible continued to talk about man been rulers over women in the New Testament assured me it was something that still exists, if it didn’t I think he would have never brought it over into the New Testament the way that he did. Might sound crazy but that is what helped me. There are other scripts that I found but it will definitely take to long to type them all in. Thanks and I hope this doesn’t offend anyone. By the way I have been really trying to understand where did TRINITY come from because I haven’t been able to find it in the bible I think someone said it talks about it in an indirect way but I want the actual scripts that talks about the trinity and scripts where the word trinity was actually used. Thanks So Much
archshrk responds: While the word “Trinity” does not appear in Scripture, the concept very clearly does. Church father Tertullian (155-220 ad) was the first to use the word “Trinity.” To say that God exists as a Trinity does not mean that there are three Gods, or that one God merely manifests Himself as either Father, Son, and Holy Spirit on various occasions.
To say that God exists as a Trinity is to say that there is one God with a unified essence who exists in three equal persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. By person it is meant that God thinks, feels, acts and speaks. The Westminster Confession of Faith (1647) summarizes the doctrine by saying, “In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost.” - Kaleo
At 8:26 am on August 6, 2007, Duke commented:
I think this is one of those issues where you can find verses that seem contradictory. It’s easy enough to pull verses out that show either view point, but determining the truth is much more difficult.
Romans 16:1 calls Phoebe a “diakonos” or deaconess. Deacon means servant, and this same word is used in places like Philippians 1:1 to say the letter is written to the “bishops and deacons.” The word “diakonos” is translated in various verses as minister, deacon, or servant.
archshrk responds: It is true that the word Deacon does come from the Greek word for servant, but it does not mean that every time the word diakonos is used, it means ‘deacon’.
Phoebe is called a “servant of the church of Cenchrea.” The word, ’servant,’ is what is occasionally translated as ‘minister,’ or less often as ‘deacon.’ It is clear in the context of this chapter and the Bible that Phoebe had no authority over a man, she was a fellow helper in Christ, a servant. Some people argue that In verse 2 the Greek word prostatis applies to Phoebe and means, “one who presides over an assembly.” No such meaning can be found in New Testament times; the word simply means “helper”, “assistant”, or “patroness.”
Clear scriptures interpret vague ones and the Bible clearly teaches that a woman cannot have authority over a man in a church setting (1 Timothy 2:11-12). Therefore, taking into account the many verses and examples that we have throughout the whole of scripture, the obscure passage of Romans 16:1-2 should not be used to support a woman having authority over a man when we have clear passages that forbid it.
At 6:25 am on August 31, 2007, as commented:
Ok well what about Deberoha in the bible who led people out of slavery, she was a leader. I think that people have to take the scripture in context. if we took everything that literally, today women wouldn’t wear makeup or have short hair. some of these things are cultural. as in those days if a woman wore makeup she would be seen as a prostitute, but now the majority of women do wear makeup. Also God didn’t want women preaching because they hadn’t been taught how to and they were saying stupid things. Any scripture read should be noted of who it may have been written for, the traditions and culture as well as reading beforehand of what had happened and getting a clear understanding of the particular book.
archshrk responds: The function of judges was primarily martial and judicial. As a judge, Deborah helped people make wise choices in their lives in the absence of prominent godly leadership among the people. But, Judges were neither anointed nor were their decisions binding as a King’s decisions would. Now compare the Prophetess Deborah to Eli, who was both high priest and judge and you see that Deborah was a Godly woman and a good leader, but she was not an Elder or Deacon of the church.
At 1:50 pm on September 12, 2007, Sister Sunshine commented:
I agree with you archshrk. great blog!!!!
At 10:13 pm on September 14, 2007, minister commented:
This is a great opportunity to discuss this issue; and I do mean discuss. We may not all agree, but we should never be found insulting and bringing other brothers and sisters of Christ down. Anyway, about our subject, we must be very careful in reading scripture without first knowing how the orignal greek reads. In the greek, I know that the bible clearing says the women and men have their roles and each one is important. Also, the greek is clear about God not calling women to be pastors. However, in 1 Tim 2:12, the greek rendering is not “women” but wives. How do we know this since the same greek word is used for both women and wives? The context of the scripture. The greek word for man here, is “husband”. So therefore, since not all women had husbands, this verse can not possibly be a blanket statement that all women are not to preach. Furthermore, the KJV translation here is not adequate. When it comes to “usurping authority” it should read “by usurping authority”. Paul is saying that wives should never use the opportunities to teach, to degrade, talk down to, nor lord over their husbands. In all actuallity, this particular verse does not even refer to inside the church behavior and roles. I just addressed it because it seems to be the verse that everyone is using to say women are not called by God to preach. We can “discuss’ other scriptures if desired, but I am guessing that this one will generate more than enough “holy ghost filled” chatter. Before I sign off, I must say however that Archshrk, you are the first person that I have met that is against women preaching or pastoring with such a gentle, polite and Christ-like spirit. My discernment of you may be totally off, but I don’t think so. This is the only reason I decided to post. I have read numerous blogs and they are filled with people more concerned with stamping home their point, than honoring Christ with their responses. Prov 15:1 Be Blessed
At 11:13 pm on September 30, 2007, christina commented:
Some have questioned why, if Jesus did indeed approve of women leading churches, did he not have a woman apostle. Some above even used this item as evidence that Jesus supporting having women in a submissive role…So i ask you, what is your position on the Apostle Junia? So clearly a female that Paul also writes about? And Jesus’ radical decision to travel with women in his company? Even his closest compatriots questioned this radical notion, right? And what about the fact that Jesus not only preached that men and women were equal in heaven, but treated them as equals on earth? no where in the NT did he ever patronize or put down any women, in fact he praised many women and broke bread with many women and respected their advice and knowledge…And if we don’t use some historical context in examining Paul’s writings, how do we understand when he wrote to the corinthians and told them to not marry, if they were not already married, when he clearly, in other letters, praise the sacrament of marriage and encourages us to seek married relationships? If we use historical context in some of his writings, where do we draw the line? I am not agreeing or disagreeing with anything said above, these are just questions i would like to have your opinion on…thank you
archshrk responds: Romans 16:7 (English Standard Version)
Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me.
Here, Jania is sometimes translated as Janias and apostles is translated as messengers. Either way, the people Paul is referencing are not referred to as apostles but rather “known to the apostles”. The phrase my kinsmen is Paul’s way of saying they are Jewish, like him. To be “well know” or “prominent” or “great among” means they are godly people who have a good reputation with the apostles.
As for Jesus’ treatment and interaction with women, there is no conflict here. At no point am I trying to argue that women are lesser people. Genesis clearly says we are created as co-heirs to the kingdom. But just as Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the Father have different roles within the Triune Godhead, so women and men are created with different roles. As as it applies to Spiritual headship and authority within the church, God has given that role to men. The problem is that, as sinners, we have rejected our roles and responsibilities. The beauty of this, is that a strong women is a “helper suitable” to a strong man. But too often, strong women marry weaker men. This leads to wrong relationships that adds conflict to the union.
On the issue of marriage, Paul’s point was that lust distracts us from focusing on God. God created marriage because it is not right that man should be alone. He created a helper suitable for this very reason. But we need to look at the need. God exists in the perfect relationship of the Triune Godhead - we do not. In order for us to experience a similar relationship, he created marriage. That is why the roles are so important.
There are plenty of women stronger (and more spiritual) than me, but I have been called to be the spiritual head of my household. If I am not strong enough to lead or my wife is not strong enough to be a help, then our relationship suffers.
I hope I’ve been able to explain myself on these questions clearly. If you want more clarification or new questions have come up, feel free to email me directly (or leave another comment)
At 5:46 am on October 1, 2007, christina commented:
Another question, and again, please permit me to say these are questions and i have no ‘liberal’ or ‘feminist’ agenda…i truly am seeking guidance here…my question is this…you open your argument by stating it is clearly stated in 1 Timothy 2:11-14 that women should learn in quietness, not permitted to teach or have authority over men all because Adam was first, then Eve and that Eve was the one deceived, not Adam (i have a follow on question about this later) but what about 1 Timothy 2:15 that says “But women will be saved through childbrearing–if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.” This sounds like it says i, as a women, will be saved (forgived?) by having children, so I could become a pastor if i have children b/c I am saved? And what about 1 Timothy 3:1-5 which lays out who can be a Deacon? It states He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect (if anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?)” So this clearly states a man must then have children? So why do we permit Deacons who are single? with no children? or Deacons that have children that are unruly? Finally, i have a question from Genesis 3:6-7 “When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasig to the eye, and also desireable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.” This implies that Adam was there all along when Eve was talking with the Serpeant, right? So why is only Eve guilty? And like a lot of Jesus’ parables in the NT, the second party, in this case Adam, tells God it is Eve’s fault, just like the oldest son complained when the father gave the prodical son a party, right? This explains human nature, a theme us humans constantly are reminded of in the bible, that when our sins are showed to us, we first tend to blame others? but why is the prodical son taken as a symbol of God’s love for everyone, even the 11th hour confessor (like the thief i will confess to thee) but Eve and all women are condemned? Just questions, thank you so much for your time and patience!
At 7:00 pm on October 19, 2007, Madison commented:
thanks SO much for this article! i totally agree with it. the real question of women in church office really comes down to whether or not to believe the authority of the Scripture.
At 9:29 pm on November 21, 2007, Gina commented:
my question is concerning women who are divorced. according to scripture is it lawful for her to remarry?
archshrk responds: You may find this is addressed in my post about Christian Divorce. But my quick answer is yes, it is lawful. We should avoid divorce as much as we can but God is forgiving and allows remarriage. But it needs to be God honoring just as everything we do.
At 11:23 pm on February 2, 2008, SAM commented:
“the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man” Clearly this is talking about the marriage relationship. Can you show me from Scripture where a woman is commanded to be in submission to any other male?
Did Mary ask her father or Joseph if it was alright with him before she said “yes” to the angel? Did the Proverbs 31 woman ask her husband before she went to buy a field? Does anyone see a problem here?
At 3:07 pm on February 23, 2008, Tracy commented:
I think that this is a very controversial issue, but I think that you are right on!! The Bible is clear about women teaching men. That does not mean that they cannot have the gift of prophecy, administration, teaching, etc. Many women have the gift of teaching and teach Sunday school, lead Youth Group Bible Studies (which is a command from Titus 2, women to lead the younger women), lead a women’s Bible study, work in the nursery, or sing in the choir. I think women should be actively involved in church, just not in the role of a preacher.
At 3:11 pm on March 30, 2008, godsarmyof8 commented:
We do not need to confuse the institution of church with the body of people called God’s church. It is about a relationship with Christ. Leading people can easily be confused with power and authority. Leading an institution is like leading a business. Guiding and teaching God’s people to be disciples is totally different. If someone, woman or man, is called to help the lost or feed the sheep, they are called to create diciples. Having a pastoring gift is to love on someone to bring them closer to Christ. The scriptures mentioned many times before in Titus and Corin. state the role a woman and man should hold. In observing those roles we are showing God’s love and His devine plan. The designed role of the family is the design for all institutions of man. It is not a matter of a women’s capability, it is a matter of obedience. Even Eve wanted to be more like God. What if Adam had stood up and assumed his rule over his wife? Perhaps this conversation would not exist.
At 12:54 am on June 5, 2008, The best I can do | archshrk pingbacked:
[...] for the controversial types, I give you Should Women be allowed to Preach? A scriptural look at the roles of women in Elder positions. Not very popular with those who [...]
At 3:27 am on June 5, 2008, Frank Turk commented:
Your first question is a red herring. It is possible that a woman could serve as “deaconess” and not be eligible to serve as “elder”. These are not the same positions, biblically.
I think that the Bible tells us they should not serve as either, but they are not one and the same question.
archshrk responds: Very true. When I posed this question to myself and my readers, I wanted to be more general and look at the issue of church leadership. Deacons and Elders are different roles within the church body but at the time I wrote this, deacon was less clearly defined, or at least - less universally accepted. I would agree that both roles fall under the issue of Federal Headship - that is, women should not be deacons or elders. At the same time, not every man is qualified to be a deacon or elder.
At 12:52 pm on June 21, 2008, Robert Hickman commented:
Instructions are that deacons and elders are to be “the husbands of one wife.” Seems that this rules out women and single men as Deacons, Elders,and also Pastors since Pastors normally hold the rank of Elder. Our churches only ordain pastors that are married.
At 5:50 pm on July 15, 2008, Joseph commented:
Good day to everyone in this forum. I am going to drop some things real quick on this forum. If you look at the word you will find these things in reference to this topic:
The first 2 preach Jesus to the Jews was a woman (see Luke 2:37,38)
The first to proclaim the resurrection was a woman (see mat 28:8)
The Samaritan woman preached to men (see John 4)
Were in attendance at the first prayer meeting (see acts 1:14)
the First people to greet Paul and Silas where women (see acts 16:13)
First European converts where Woman (see acts 16:14)
The 3 daughters of Phillip Paul recognized as Preachers
Math 28:18 was not gender specific Jesus gave the great commission to both men and women
Joel 2 says that the Lord will pour out his spirit on all flesh and his sons AND Daughters will prophecy (aka preach)
So is there a problem with women speaking from the pulpit to a congregation I think not
archshrk responds: Joseph, thanks for taking the time to leave scriptural arguments for your position. These would appear to support women preaching but that is a bit misleading. At no point do I suggest women should not share the Gospel nor do I believe any are excused from it. Rather, I am describing the Complementarian View that says we are created as equal image bearers of Christ but we have specific roles as men and women. Most of the scripture references describe evangelism which you term “preaching” but in none of these cases does the woman described have authority over the men. Regarding the Daughters of Philip, I think Jeffrey T. Riddle’s article Are the Daughters of Philip Among the Prophets of Acts? does an excellent job of discussing this in greater detail. Here’s a highlight…
At 5:09 pm on July 22, 2008, Should Women be allowed to Preach? | Blogogetics pingbacked:
[...] was originally posted on archshrk.com. You can read the comments and my responses [...]
At 11:04 pm on July 27, 2008, J.R. commented:
2 Peter 1:19-21
Do not presume to believe that your particular understanding of prophecy is THE correct one! He says this is the “first” rule of studying prophecy; it is something we must arm ourselves with at the outset. We must be humble enough to realize that our interpretation of prophecy is probably WRONG!
Further more the word prophecy does not mean to PREACH, hello?! It means to have knowledge of the future (usually said to be obtained from a divine source). That is not Preaching. The Holy Spirit can enter into the heart of any woman or man to be a prophet. But to PREACH is to Teach and it’s not coincidence that they both sound alike. Problem is that the world today is a very liberal, ungodly place in which we try to mix scripture with being political correctness. Will a woman go to hell because she preaches? I would trust not but I am not GOD - but lets us not take scripture into private interpretations and instead pray for understanding. The bible leave nothing to ambuguity.
At 8:16 pm on September 8, 2008, Isaiah55 commented:
I just wanna state to this entry:
Actually, it isnt only written in Paul’s words! Its also written in 1 Timothy 2:11-15 also. And to ever say that anything in the Bible is wrong or mislead is to call God a liar, for if it were wrong or misleading then God would not have included it in His “Word”.
At 9:40 am on September 21, 2008, Jon commented:
Thank you so much for this! It’s good to see that there are people out there that actually read their Bible and know what’s going on. My Dad, (who is a pastor) ran across this one day and I was like “For real? Are you serious?” and then he showed me the scripture; I’ve been a believer of this ever since. Also keep in mind, “God is not the author of Confusion.” If you don’t know where that its, take a look at Matthew. Nonetheless, God is not going to contradict himself and say anything he doesn’t mean. The scripture means what is says, plain and simple. If you don’t believe it, oh well. Good post! God Bless!